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Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for For All Mankind Season 5, Episode 3.
Summary
- Collider talks to Joel Kinnaman about Ed Baldwin’s final episode and how the actor felt playing out the character’s death in Season 5 of For All Mankind.
- Kinnaman talked about how emotional he was filming the finale, and discussed reuniting his former co-stars, filming the Korean War flashbacks, and how many hours he spent in the makeup chair for his prosthetics.
- Kinnaman also praises the show for sticking to its original plan and reveals if there’s ever a possibility of seeing him again in the final season of the series.
As For All Mankind progresses, the one question on everyone’s mind is: just how old can the show make Joel Kinnaman this season? Since the beginning, Kinnaman’s Ed Baldwin has been a major protagonist for the alternate history series, even as the cast expanded, and the series spotlighted a larger ensemble. Many characters have come and gone in humanity’s journey to the Moon and beyond, but Ed’s always been around, usually ending up at the center of every season’s conflict. Now, however, For All Mankind has finally reached the end of Ed’s journey.
In Episode 3, “Home,” Ed’s health has taken a sharp decline after helping Lee Jung-Gil (C.S. Lee) escape Happy Valley to avoid being sent back to North Korea for a crime he didn’t commit. At the beginning of the season, Dima (Goran Ivanovski) reveals Ed’s cancer diagnosis and advises him not to pilot any aircraft — but, without other options to save Lee, Ed pilots the hopper and gets Lee to safety, only to end up unconscious by the time that Peacekeeper Celia Boyd (Mireille Enos) arrives to arrest him. “Home” follows Ed’s final days as he reconnects with his grandson, Alex (Sean Kaufman), after their argument in “The Hard Six.” Kinnaman’s final episode is also packed to the brim with emotion as Ed lies on his deathbed, flashing back to a younger version of the character fighting in the Korean War, bringing back Michael Dorman and Shantel VanSanten for his final scene, and delivering a heartfelt goodbye for the Baldwin family via a drink at Ilya’s (Dimiter Marinov) bar.
Before Kinnaman’s final episode aired, Collider spoke with the actor about his emotional journey on the Apple TV series. “As his values somewhat evolved, it actually put [Ed] on a collision course with the establishment, so he started getting more and more like ‘fuck you’ to the man,” he says happily, throwing up two middle fingers for emphasis. Season 5 also offered the actor a brief reunion with his The Killing co-star Mireille Enos, and Kinnaman reveals which hilarious Easter egg ended up on the cutting room floor. In terms of answering the question that’s most prominently on fans’ minds after “Home,” he also discusses whether or not he would ever return in some form or another by the sixth and final season.
Joel Kinnaman Reflects on ‘For All Mankind’s Farewell to Ed Baldwin
“They were able to create this grand vision, but still be so close to the characters and have such respect for these characters.”
COLLIDER: I just rewatched Episode 3, your last episode, last night. It was such a fantastic piece, and I want to congratulate you on doing such a great job in the show.
JOEL KINNAMAN: Thank you so much. This has been the most emotional experience of my career, like confusingly emotional for me. When we were shooting this last episode, I was a total mess. I was crying every day. I’m still trying to figure out exactly what was going on inside of me, because as actors, we do this all the time. We create these little short-term families where we fall in love, and then we say goodbye. Sometimes you’ve been doing it for several years, and it’s a little bit harder to say goodbye, but nothing came even close to this. I’ve been trying to unpack, like, why did I get so emotional about this?
There’s this sort of existential aspect of playing a character in all these different ages and spending months contemplating what life will be like in these different ages, and putting my own mortality at the forefront of it. Also, playing 82, that’s the same age that my dad is, and then having the scene on his deathbed and saying goodbye to my child and grandchild, it just puts the inevitability of life right in front of your eyes.
But then I also think that there’s something else, too, and it’s just the story. I love getting to be part of telling this story. I really love getting to tell this story. There’s an ethos behind this show of this optimism that it’s carrying, and I just felt so honored to be part of it. It just resonated so much with me. They were able to create this grand vision, but still be so close to the characters and have such respect for these characters. It just really, really meant a lot to me.
‘For All Mankind’ Season 5 Finale Will Leave Fans Screaming — or Silent [Exclusive]
The creators talk “bloodthirsty” character deaths, the upcoming and final season, and what fans can expect from the spin-off.
And then they just wrecked me with the flashback scenes with Michael Dorman and Shantel [VanSanten]. Seeing Michael… because me and him playing Gordo, we played best friends on the show, but then we became really close friends. I love Michael. Michael’s an amazing guy. He’s got the biggest heart of anyone I’ve ever met. He’s got this big, bleeding heart that just gets him in a lot of trouble. Just seeing him standing there with the wry smile, laughing, I just started crying again. It was like a cry fest. The whole thing was just a fucking cry fest.
I was crying, too, to be fair. It was an emotionally shared experience.
KINNAMAN: It’s very rare to get to play and to see a character so detailed over the course of a whole life, because it’s just such a unique concept in that way. Usually, that aging process happens in the epilogue scene at the end of a movie, but you don’t really attach yourself to all the different ages. I’m sure for people who are watching the show, too, they get to go on that journey, as well.
For me, it’s like I’m going to watch this show as a fan now, and I’ve never had that. None of the shows that I’ve been in that have carried on without me, I’ve actually never watched an episode past the point of my own death. I just haven’t really been interested. But this one is different. I asked them not to send me any scripts past Episode 3, and I didn’t want any links to the episodes. I’m just watching this show as a fan.
So I know more than you do at this point!
KINNAMAN: Yeah, I haven’t seen Episode 3.
Oh my god! Well, it’s going to wreck you.
Joel Kinnaman Discusses How Ed’s Character Has Changed on ‘For All Mankind’
“It’s basically me entertaining myself, but then that becomes character traits that they pick up on, and it’s been really fun.”
Ed’s character, I love him, and I hate him. Sometimes he’s so aggravating, I just want to be like, “You are such an old man!” But it’s really interesting to see how you’ve played him throughout each decade in every season. What are some key traits that you wanted to hold on to even as Ed aged with each season passing by?
KINNAMAN: Ed’s sense of humor has evolved. He became funnier and funnier the crankier he got. Also, Ed’s moral center over the course of his life put him more and more against the establishment. In the beginning, he was sort of a rebel, but within the establishment. Then, as his values somewhat evolved, it actually put him on a collision course with the establishment, so he started getting more and more like “fuck you” to the man.
I did love it in the first episode when he puts his little ankle monitor right over just to set the alarm off. That was such an old man move, and then to just walk away.
KINNAMAN: [Laughs] I love that, too. My sense of humor, when I fall in love with a character, and especially with this kind of character, like Ed, where I feel like there are so many possibilities, I find myself messing around and teasing my co-stars, a little bit in character, a little bit just me, and so my sense of humor starts to seep into it.
Then the collaboration with the writers on the show has been really, really beautiful, so they’ve been really quick at picking up my little quirks and improvisations, and then incorporating them into the character. I haven’t been, like, coming to them and saying, “Hey, I think Ed should be more and more like this.” Things happen, and improvisations that make me have a good time on set. It’s basically me entertaining myself, but then that becomes character traits that they pick up on, and it’s been really fun.
The creators say the show was never meant to run forever.
Joel Kinnaman Discusses His Brief Reunion With ‘The Killing’s Mireille Enos
“She’s literally one of the best in the world.”
One thing that I really love this season is that they brought in Mireille Enos. First of all, I love The Killing. That’s one of my favorite shows of all time, and I love that you guys were both in Hanna. What was it like working with her again and having a little bit of a reunion?
KINNAMAN: We just have that one moment, but I’m sort of unconscious. But I did mutter out, I don’t know if it was caught on camera, but I was like, in Ed’s voice, “What’s up, Linden?” I had to get it out there. For us, Matt [Wolpert] and Ben [Nedivi] were like, “We’re thinking of going to Mireille. Do you think there’s any chance that she would do it?” I was like, “Well, we are shooting in LA, so that’s a big plus.” So, I was just so thrilled for the show’s sake that we got her.
Her character goes on a wild journey. You’re going to enjoy it.
KINNAMAN: I can already feel it. She’s so good. She’s literally one of the best in the world. She’s one of the best actors in the world.
Joel Kinnaman Reveals Why ‘For All Mankind’ Decided To Kill Ed So Early in Season 5
“People didn’t even believe it was a sci-fi show after Season 1.”
How early on did you know that Ed was going to die in this season? Have you known for seasons, or was it like this season they were like, “Hey, by the way, only three episodes for you?”
KINNAMAN: When I met Matt, Ben, and Ron [Moore] in 2018, they sort of laid out the five-season vision for the show, and it’s remarkable how much of that actually is intact in the actual show. It was so frustrating when I was promoting and talking about the show after Season 1, and even after Season 2. I’m like, “It’s not just Mad Men at NASA.” People didn’t even believe it was a sci-fi show after Season 1. That’s how grounded and patient this show is. It wasn’t until Season 3 that you really feel like, “Okay, this is sci-fi.” For me, it was always a five-season vision. I knew with this show we would never try to, like, “Oh, and then they found some youth elixir on Helios, on Titan 5, so now Ed’s 60 again!” It’s not that show.
Then they brought me into the conversation that they were having in the room about how they didn’t want to start a new season without Ed, so that’s why they didn’t want Ed to die in the finale. They wanted to surprise the audience, but then also give it a little more runway to pass the baton. Because even though it’s always been an ensemble show, Ed has a sort of central part of the show, and of course, that will leave a bit of a vacuum and an empty space that you want to fill. I think they wanted to fill it in the same season. So, I thought it was a really cool way to do it, and I was so happy with the three episodes that I got to play.
Joel Kinnaman Talks Passing the Baton to His Onscreen Grandson Sean Kaufman on ‘For All Mankind’
“He put his own stink on the character and on what he was doing…”
I think Ed’s presence is very much felt in the rest of the season. I know you haven’t seen the episodes, but his legacy lives on in his daughter and his grandson. They kind of adopt Ed’s cavalier, cowboy-esque approach to life.
KINNAMAN: Awesome! I can’t wait to see it. I can’t wait.
What was it like working with Sean Kaufman and having him play this older version of Ed’s grandson and having him be an adult now instead of working with a child?
KINNAMAN: I love the kid. He just came in with the perfect attitude, in my opinion. He came in and created enough space for himself to his own thing. He put his own stink on the character and on what he was doing, but he was also really warm and respectful, and I just thought he was really talented and very present. He was really there.
Now, I saw the first two episodes he was in, and I thought, “Oh, this kid is fucking excellent!” He’s really a great young actor. But I really liked him as a person, so that makes it extra fun to see when someone is really delivering. He’s going to be able to carry it. It’s always an ensemble show, so it’s great in that way. It’s not about one person carrying it all the way. It’s spread across many characters, but he’s going to be great.
‘For All Mankind’s Korean War Flashback Has Been Four Years in the Making, Kinnaman Reveals
“The Korea episode has been a theme for about four years between me and the writers.”
In this episode, you also have flashback scenes to when Ed was when he was in Korea. How was it playing out those scenes, knowing it was a dream sequence and also a flashback?
KINNAMAN: The Korea episode has been a theme for about four years between me and the writers. They started teasing this Korea episode, this flashback episode. It was always going to be where there was this standalone flashback episode, and they tried to get it in Season 3, they tried to get it in Season 4, and it was in and then out, and then in and out. Ultimately, it just became this darling that they kept having to kill, so it was always a little bit of a bummer. Especially when we got more and more into prosthetics, I was like, “Let’s get the Korea episode where I don’t have to put makeup on!” [Laughs]
But I was so happy when they found the spot for it to tell that story. Of course, we get a hint of Ed, and there are things that he wasn’t quite honest with himself about, and the guilt and shame that he felt. Of course, that continues on.
‘For All Mankind’ Has Perfected the Aging Process for Ed Baldwin
“The fourth season, I was in the chair for between five and six hours.”
You just mentioned the prosthetics. I want to know how much longer the process has taken over every season because the prosthetics are fantastic in this, to the point where I forget that you’re not an 80-year-old man sometimes. But I can imagine that process is a lot because it’s all the way down to your neck. How long are you spending in a chair?
KINNAMAN: Well, it’s funny, the fifth season I felt like we finally really stuck the landing with it. Interestingly enough, it was half of the time of the fourth season. The fourth season, I was in the chair for between five and six hours. I had a call time at, like, 1:00 a.m. for a 7:00 a.m. call time, and then I would shoot a 12 to 13-hour day on top of it, and then an hour to take it off. It was hectic. And then, it’s constant adjustments, so you have someone poking you in the face for 17 hours a day. It was really difficult, mentally, to deal with.
I can see why those Korea episodes are something that you look forward to.
KINNAMAN: Well, Season 5 was a lot easier. I found it easier to portray 80 than 70. It was easier to really lean into the aging. Because you can see a lot of 70-year-old guys who are kind of fluid, and they still have their full mobility. If you just look at their actual body movement, you can’t tell if they’re 40 or 70. But at the same time, when you’re aging 10 years on a show, there’s always an expectation of being older than the previous season. It was a harder calculation to do for 70 than 80, for some reason.
Also, in the final season, it became this whole character in a way that maybe I didn’t quite achieve in Season 4. In the fifth season, I stayed in it, and I was creating this inner and outer temple where Ed was still sharp, even though sometimes he stumbled, but he’s still sharp. He had a very fast inner tempo, but then a much slower outer exterior, physical tempo. I stayed in that slower physical tempo for the entirety when I was on set. I was moving pretty slow. Also, thinking of someone that’s been on a space base for such a long time, I think the vocal cords will dry out a lot quicker, so I shifted more focus on the voice, and all of it. It felt like a different character in the fifth season compared to the fourth season.
I think what you kept is the inhuman level of Parmesan that he eats with his spaghetti, which is impressive even to me as a cheese lover.
KINNAMAN: Ed loves cheese.
Joel Kinnaman Reveals Whether or Not He’ll Be Back for ‘For All Mankind’ Season 6
“…I think that’s why the integrity of the show would forbid those kinds of leaps.”
Wrapping things up, is there any possibility or talks about you potentially returning for Season 6 in some sort of way? My coworkers and I have a joke that you’re going to come back as a robot with Ed’s consciousness implanted into it, so you don’t have to be an old man anymore, but any potential for that? Is the door left open, or are you out?
KINNAMAN: No. I think that’s the integrity of this show, that it doesn’t do those kinds of leaps, even though I’ve been on them. I’m like, “Where are the fucking aliens, guys? Come on!” I keep showing them videos. I was like, “They’re fucking here!” And they’re just so methodical and patient, and I think that’s why the integrity of the show would forbid those kinds of leaps. It makes the goodbye mean more, too, when it actually is a goodbye.
- Release Date
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November 1, 2019
- Network
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Apple TV
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https://collider.com/for-all-mankind-season-5-joel-kinnaman-ed-baldwin-death-episode/
Therese Lacson
Almontather Rassoul
